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asgarddawning2012-08-02 08:01 pm
concretejungles) wrote in asgarddawning2012-08-02 08:01 pm
Entry tags:
MOD POST: A FEW CHANGES AND A POLL
Hello everyone! Tosshi here using this journal again for its paid account, so we can poll you!
Its a little later than initially said, but we have a very important post here, so please read every single thing! This covers our responses to all of the issues brought up in the mod feedback thread on the last HMD. Since this is important we aren't cutting it, so sorry to your flists! We'd just like to make sure people don't scroll past so easily. So here we go!
FIRST, apps. We realize they are still being done slower than you like and slower than we'd like. We're trying to up efficiency a bit with our own process, but additionally we would like to add two more members to the app team. If you're interested and have time, please ping tosshi on plurk. Her plurk is![[plurk.com profile]](https://plurk.com/favicon.ico)
titzilla. Why plurk? Because a lot of mod discussions and notifications are done through clique plurks that I make. You'll need to have a plurk to be on the team, so that I can add you if I don't already have you on my timeline. Preferably you'll also have private plurk pings turned on, but if not we'll just ask you to keep an eye out for them. It's a little inconvenient if you're not already a plurk user, but it's the quickest way for us to keep in touch as a group, so that's how it goes.
Also, please be aware that as a member of the app team you would be asked to judge things you are not canon familiar with. It's impossible for the team to know every canon, and one of the issues we've had to date is the time it takes us to get things processed that we're canonblind on. You'll have to be willing to read wikis or even take in excerpts of canons to help us process these apps faster. If you're up to that, do contact us! We'll pick the volunteers we feel most comfortable with and who we think will be on the same page as the rest of us for standards.
SECOND, events. There's definitely been a problem with the lack of downtime in the game. Between app cycle, AC, and events, there's very little breathing room for mods or players. While we've discussed making app cycles every two months to help with this, last time it was brought up people felt very strongly against it, so we're having to look at other ways to manage the calendar.
Our decision right now is that from now on, the mods will only be running overarcing plot events. We'll be allowing one major player plot (like the Darkness plot in August) each month if someone comes to us with one, and we'll run overarcing plot events on the months they're scheduled, but special events and house contests are going to be much rarer now. We're likely to run one or the other during months with no overarcing plot, but never at the same time. This means major events will be down to one or two per month, which should help. If things are still overwhelming after that, well have to revisit the bi-monthly app cycle option.
One thing that is not changing at the moment, however, is the pace of the overarcing plot. While we understand concerns with it, and we can't really reassure without spoiling everything, don't worry! The plot arcs are not so grand that they need every possible thing explored or explained within them. We won't need to squash a ton of development into two months, as the game is meant to last indefinitely. If we did everything in the first year there'd be nothing left for the next arcs, so it's not as scary as it might seem. :) We'll revisit this in December when the second arc is beginning, and see if it really was too much, in which case we'll slow it down, but for this arc we're on track and everything is fine!
THIRD, businesses. Right now player businesses are in a kind of back-burner, vague place, and that's not good. We're going to be upping business app efficiency, but there are other things to take into account as well. Soon we'll be going through all the existing businesses and seeing which ones have been abandoned and which ones have applied, been appoved, and not put themselves on the comm. We'll figure out who the abandoned ones have gone to or open them up for being taken over, and after that we'll be adding a business list to the business page. This will make it much easier to see what's there and get involved. We'll also be adding a reminder for business owners to the drop page, so we know when someone's leaving and passing something on.
AND LASTLY, activity issues. Asgard seems to be suffering from a serious case of posting-to-make AC. What this means is that we're getting rashes of posts that are very similar in content, lack much subtance, and don't get many tags. People are making posts and using them for AC proofs, but not coming back and playing in them. This is ending in a lot of characters being inactive but making AC on technicalities. Thus, we'll be changing the way AC requirements work. Please read the following options very carefully, and consider discussing in the post before you vote on the poll. Also, please note that the final decision is up to the mods. We'll take both raw poll numbers and discussion points into account and make the changes we feel are fairest and best suited to the game based on both. Thus, it's important to weigh in on the discussion. If option 1 gets the most votes but also has the most compelling and valid arguments against it, it is less likely to be chosen, etc. Now for the options:
Regardless of which option above is chosen, we will be increasing activity requirements somewhat. With options 1 and 2, we'd be asking for three proofs instead of two. That would be asking only for one tag per day, tops, for each character over a month, which we think is more than a fair expectation especially in a relatively large and quickly moving game that does not tend to rely on large prose tagging.
EDIT: you might want to check out this comment to understand the differences between Options 1 & 2!
Additionally, it's been suggested that we consider looking at the characters being tagged. Since cross-canon tagging is required for leveling up, we could begin requiring diverse tagging to make AC at all. This would be asking a lot of some players, but would also be encouraging people to tag obscure characters, OCs, newbies, and just all around people they don't tag every day.
If we implemented a tagging diversity rule, it would be a requirement that asks each AC proof to be with a different character, at least one of which would have to be cross-canon. If we end up still counting posts, they'd count for every character you tagged inside them. This means that if Character A made a post and tagged Character B (canonmate), Character C (cross-canon), and Character D (canonmate) inside it, they could submit threads with any of those three characters for their other proofs. However, if Character A made a post and only tagged Character B and Character C in it, they'd need to provide a thread with Character D in order prove they tagged 3 different characters.
Please be sure you've read everything clearly! If there are questions, please reply to the mod questions thread below. Happy polling!
ANOTHER IMPORTANT EDIT: please see this comment with regards to plotting and getting involved ICly!
Its a little later than initially said, but we have a very important post here, so please read every single thing! This covers our responses to all of the issues brought up in the mod feedback thread on the last HMD. Since this is important we aren't cutting it, so sorry to your flists! We'd just like to make sure people don't scroll past so easily. So here we go!
FIRST, apps. We realize they are still being done slower than you like and slower than we'd like. We're trying to up efficiency a bit with our own process, but additionally we would like to add two more members to the app team. If you're interested and have time, please ping tosshi on plurk. Her plurk is
Also, please be aware that as a member of the app team you would be asked to judge things you are not canon familiar with. It's impossible for the team to know every canon, and one of the issues we've had to date is the time it takes us to get things processed that we're canonblind on. You'll have to be willing to read wikis or even take in excerpts of canons to help us process these apps faster. If you're up to that, do contact us! We'll pick the volunteers we feel most comfortable with and who we think will be on the same page as the rest of us for standards.
SECOND, events. There's definitely been a problem with the lack of downtime in the game. Between app cycle, AC, and events, there's very little breathing room for mods or players. While we've discussed making app cycles every two months to help with this, last time it was brought up people felt very strongly against it, so we're having to look at other ways to manage the calendar.
Our decision right now is that from now on, the mods will only be running overarcing plot events. We'll be allowing one major player plot (like the Darkness plot in August) each month if someone comes to us with one, and we'll run overarcing plot events on the months they're scheduled, but special events and house contests are going to be much rarer now. We're likely to run one or the other during months with no overarcing plot, but never at the same time. This means major events will be down to one or two per month, which should help. If things are still overwhelming after that, well have to revisit the bi-monthly app cycle option.
One thing that is not changing at the moment, however, is the pace of the overarcing plot. While we understand concerns with it, and we can't really reassure without spoiling everything, don't worry! The plot arcs are not so grand that they need every possible thing explored or explained within them. We won't need to squash a ton of development into two months, as the game is meant to last indefinitely. If we did everything in the first year there'd be nothing left for the next arcs, so it's not as scary as it might seem. :) We'll revisit this in December when the second arc is beginning, and see if it really was too much, in which case we'll slow it down, but for this arc we're on track and everything is fine!
THIRD, businesses. Right now player businesses are in a kind of back-burner, vague place, and that's not good. We're going to be upping business app efficiency, but there are other things to take into account as well. Soon we'll be going through all the existing businesses and seeing which ones have been abandoned and which ones have applied, been appoved, and not put themselves on the comm. We'll figure out who the abandoned ones have gone to or open them up for being taken over, and after that we'll be adding a business list to the business page. This will make it much easier to see what's there and get involved. We'll also be adding a reminder for business owners to the drop page, so we know when someone's leaving and passing something on.
AND LASTLY, activity issues. Asgard seems to be suffering from a serious case of posting-to-make AC. What this means is that we're getting rashes of posts that are very similar in content, lack much subtance, and don't get many tags. People are making posts and using them for AC proofs, but not coming back and playing in them. This is ending in a lot of characters being inactive but making AC on technicalities. Thus, we'll be changing the way AC requirements work. Please read the following options very carefully, and consider discussing in the post before you vote on the poll. Also, please note that the final decision is up to the mods. We'll take both raw poll numbers and discussion points into account and make the changes we feel are fairest and best suited to the game based on both. Thus, it's important to weigh in on the discussion. If option 1 gets the most votes but also has the most compelling and valid arguments against it, it is less likely to be chosen, etc. Now for the options:
- OPTION 1: Posts themselves do not count for AC at all. Only threads count, so even if you post, you need to have threads inside the post to make AC. Threads in a post you made and threads in a post you tagged count equally. The way we count threads (a proof being one ten-comment thread or at least three shorter threads adding up to 10) will not change. The way we count logs also will not change.
- OPTION 2: Posts do count for AC, but they have a comment count requirement. For a post to count, it would have to have at least 10 comments from you in it. The number of threads won't matter, just a flat comment requirement for the poster. The way we count threads and logs will not change.
- OPTION 3: Eliminating different kinds of AC proofs entirely. The AC requirements would change to 30 comments of any kind (network/inbox/log) across at least 3 different posts. Three network posts, two network and an inbox, a network and two logs, any combo would be fine, it would just be a simple comment count for the character's activity. The vast majority of log tags in this game are not significantly longer than the tags being made on network posts, so this would make everything count evenly so that people who primarily play on the network and people who play primarily in log posts have the same about of activity asked of them.
Regardless of which option above is chosen, we will be increasing activity requirements somewhat. With options 1 and 2, we'd be asking for three proofs instead of two. That would be asking only for one tag per day, tops, for each character over a month, which we think is more than a fair expectation especially in a relatively large and quickly moving game that does not tend to rely on large prose tagging.
EDIT: you might want to check out this comment to understand the differences between Options 1 & 2!
Additionally, it's been suggested that we consider looking at the characters being tagged. Since cross-canon tagging is required for leveling up, we could begin requiring diverse tagging to make AC at all. This would be asking a lot of some players, but would also be encouraging people to tag obscure characters, OCs, newbies, and just all around people they don't tag every day.
If we implemented a tagging diversity rule, it would be a requirement that asks each AC proof to be with a different character, at least one of which would have to be cross-canon. If we end up still counting posts, they'd count for every character you tagged inside them. This means that if Character A made a post and tagged Character B (canonmate), Character C (cross-canon), and Character D (canonmate) inside it, they could submit threads with any of those three characters for their other proofs. However, if Character A made a post and only tagged Character B and Character C in it, they'd need to provide a thread with Character D in order prove they tagged 3 different characters.
Please be sure you've read everything clearly! If there are questions, please reply to the mod questions thread below. Happy polling!
Open to: Access List, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 95
Which AC option should we take?
View Answers
Option 1 - no posts
7 (7.4%)
Option 2 - comment count for posts
41 (43.2%)
Option 3 - flat comment requirement
47 (49.5%)
Should we require tagging diversity?
ANOTHER IMPORTANT EDIT: please see this comment with regards to plotting and getting involved ICly!
regarding plot
With regards to characters being more involved in the overarcing plot, we'd be happy to take suggestions. As it is some players are obviously feeling like they're only reacting, and that's not good! However, we'd like to see some more concrete ideas on what it is you'd prefer. Right now, we're very open to people volunteering to start things, to get involved with the bad guys or at home, but we haven't gotten a lot of bites in that regard and a good deal of the ones we have gotten have been told "yes, you can do things!" and haven't come back to tell us what they actually want to do and when.
Starting things like the neighbor's club, the teacher's council, etc, are all good ways to get characters involved in something that has an effect. There's also been attempts at government or justice systems, though they have all ICly or OOCly fallen through. Characters are aware there is a war involved -- it would be possible to organize a defense system, to set up logs exploring the area outside of the city, etc. It's also possible for people to meet one of the giant rulers and switch sides -- though you're entirely right that NPC tags have suffered. In that direction, I've tried to step up my own activity, but I don't have the time to carry on every thread for a long time.
Look at it like AC. If we're asking you to have 30 comments a month in AC, you'd think that's reasonable. On any given NPC post there are often 30 threads, and to continue them all out of 15 comments would be 15 times the activity required of a regular player, in addition to the mod's own characters and other mod duties. In short, it's a lot to do, so I'm very sorry threads are dropped after a week or so, but in the end a choice needs to be made between only responding to a few of the people who tag the post and having longer threads or responding to everyone and having shorter threads. Loki's last post ended up at 450 comments, with only a few threadjacks, so 200 of those comments or so were from just me and Remi, within a week.
Despite that, the length of threads on the last post did go up, and I will personally continue to try to increase the number of tags that get to a post.
I don't mean to just defend NPC posts, though! We'd really, really love it if people volunteered more to start things or get involved with the gods or baddies. Not all the players of NPCs have the time to dedicate them to a lot more, but I can say right now that if someone would like to strike up further CR with Loki or Freyr or Thiazi, they are always welcome to contact me! As far as other involvement in the plot, please please please drop more suggestions about how you'd like us to get you involved. A plot that doesn't ever involve players is no fun for you and honestly more work for us!
As far as giving out more information, though: The overarcing plot events have been kept to a bare minimum of info on the monthly posts, and that can definitely change. Would giving a full description of things those weeks in advance help? If so we'd be glad to do that.
We're open to other changes, so please throw us some solid bones. There isn't a lot we can do with just "it feels like we can't do anything", but we'd love to answer questions and brainstorm with you guys to come up with a way to better even this out. August's plot event should also be opening up the world a little more and giving people a way to be involved in itself, since we already knew this was a problem. Hopefully we can do even more to make everyone feel included.
no subject
You'd obviously need to put limits on what the god characters could do. Something like only having them available for comment responses or events rather than running around like normal characters do? This way you'd have less demand on your time and everyone would be able to get in a lot more interaction with the god character NPCs which may help to make people feel like they can do things to actively affect the plot.
no subject
no subject
I would also say that anyone taking a character really would NEED some form of regular contact with you guys like Plurk or AIM, much like other new mods. Coordination would be pivotal, particularly in key scenes.
no subject
I will definitely say that I have no perception, myself, that it isn't possible to do anything. This is more a case of 'ask to make sure what's ok,' and then go from there forward. I think one of the important things is that players should feel free, even encouraged, to push forward with their own plots on their initiative once they have a basic ok.
One hazarded suggestion I might make is for something very much 'down the road.' from the writeup on levels, you indicate that in later arcs a Rank 4 or 5 might become available possibly. Have you considered making a 'character plot' requirement for those levels, that in order to reach beyond the Rank 3 material, they must not only display personal growth (the essay), but also must show that they are actively participating/developing some piece of Asgard (as player plots theoretically are very color-inducing)? That might just be a nice bit of carrot on the stick for this sort of thing.
...and on that note, I just got an idea. I'm going to toddle off to ballers and justice and see what they think of this.