MOD POST: A FEW CHANGES AND A POLL

[concretejungles]

Hello everyone! Tosshi here using this journal again for its paid account, so we can poll you!

Its a little later than initially said, but we have a very important post here, so please read every single thing! This covers our responses to all of the issues brought up in the mod feedback thread on the last HMD. Since this is important we aren't cutting it, so sorry to your flists! We'd just like to make sure people don't scroll past so easily. So here we go!

FIRST, apps. We realize they are still being done slower than you like and slower than we'd like. We're trying to up efficiency a bit with our own process, but additionally we would like to add two more members to the app team. If you're interested and have time, please ping tosshi on plurk. Her plurk is titzilla. Why plurk? Because a lot of mod discussions and notifications are done through clique plurks that I make. You'll need to have a plurk to be on the team, so that I can add you if I don't already have you on my timeline. Preferably you'll also have private plurk pings turned on, but if not we'll just ask you to keep an eye out for them. It's a little inconvenient if you're not already a plurk user, but it's the quickest way for us to keep in touch as a group, so that's how it goes.

Also, please be aware that as a member of the app team you would be asked to judge things you are not canon familiar with. It's impossible for the team to know every canon, and one of the issues we've had to date is the time it takes us to get things processed that we're canonblind on. You'll have to be willing to read wikis or even take in excerpts of canons to help us process these apps faster. If you're up to that, do contact us! We'll pick the volunteers we feel most comfortable with and who we think will be on the same page as the rest of us for standards.


SECOND, events. There's definitely been a problem with the lack of downtime in the game. Between app cycle, AC, and events, there's very little breathing room for mods or players. While we've discussed making app cycles every two months to help with this, last time it was brought up people felt very strongly against it, so we're having to look at other ways to manage the calendar.

Our decision right now is that from now on, the mods will only be running overarcing plot events. We'll be allowing one major player plot (like the Darkness plot in August) each month if someone comes to us with one, and we'll run overarcing plot events on the months they're scheduled, but special events and house contests are going to be much rarer now. We're likely to run one or the other during months with no overarcing plot, but never at the same time. This means major events will be down to one or two per month, which should help. If things are still overwhelming after that, well have to revisit the bi-monthly app cycle option.

One thing that is not changing at the moment, however, is the pace of the overarcing plot. While we understand concerns with it, and we can't really reassure without spoiling everything, don't worry! The plot arcs are not so grand that they need every possible thing explored or explained within them. We won't need to squash a ton of development into two months, as the game is meant to last indefinitely. If we did everything in the first year there'd be nothing left for the next arcs, so it's not as scary as it might seem. :) We'll revisit this in December when the second arc is beginning, and see if it really was too much, in which case we'll slow it down, but for this arc we're on track and everything is fine!


THIRD, businesses. Right now player businesses are in a kind of back-burner, vague place, and that's not good. We're going to be upping business app efficiency, but there are other things to take into account as well. Soon we'll be going through all the existing businesses and seeing which ones have been abandoned and which ones have applied, been appoved, and not put themselves on the comm. We'll figure out who the abandoned ones have gone to or open them up for being taken over, and after that we'll be adding a business list to the business page. This will make it much easier to see what's there and get involved. We'll also be adding a reminder for business owners to the drop page, so we know when someone's leaving and passing something on.


AND LASTLY, activity issues. Asgard seems to be suffering from a serious case of posting-to-make AC. What this means is that we're getting rashes of posts that are very similar in content, lack much subtance, and don't get many tags. People are making posts and using them for AC proofs, but not coming back and playing in them. This is ending in a lot of characters being inactive but making AC on technicalities. Thus, we'll be changing the way AC requirements work. Please read the following options very carefully, and consider discussing in the post before you vote on the poll. Also, please note that the final decision is up to the mods. We'll take both raw poll numbers and discussion points into account and make the changes we feel are fairest and best suited to the game based on both. Thus, it's important to weigh in on the discussion. If option 1 gets the most votes but also has the most compelling and valid arguments against it, it is less likely to be chosen, etc. Now for the options:

• OPTION 1: Posts themselves do not count for AC at all. Only threads count, so even if you post, you need to have threads inside the post to make AC. Threads in a post you made and threads in a post you tagged count equally. The way we count threads (a proof being one ten-comment thread or at least three shorter threads adding up to 10) will not change. The way we count logs also will not change.


• OPTION 2: Posts do count for AC, but they have a comment count requirement. For a post to count, it would have to have at least 10 comments from you in it. The number of threads won't matter, just a flat comment requirement for the poster. The way we count threads and logs will not change.


• OPTION 3: Eliminating different kinds of AC proofs entirely. The AC requirements would change to 30 comments of any kind (network/inbox/log) across at least 3 different posts. Three network posts, two network and an inbox, a network and two logs, any combo would be fine, it would just be a simple comment count for the character's activity. The vast majority of log tags in this game are not significantly longer than the tags being made on network posts, so this would make everything count evenly so that people who primarily play on the network and people who play primarily in log posts have the same about of activity asked of them.

Regardless of which option above is chosen, we will be increasing activity requirements somewhat. With options 1 and 2, we'd be asking for three proofs instead of two. That would be asking only for one tag per day, tops, for each character over a month, which we think is more than a fair expectation especially in a relatively large and quickly moving game that does not tend to rely on large prose tagging.

EDIT: you might want to check out this comment to understand the differences between Options 1 & 2!

Additionally, it's been suggested that we consider looking at the characters being tagged. Since cross-canon tagging is required for leveling up, we could begin requiring diverse tagging to make AC at all. This would be asking a lot of some players, but would also be encouraging people to tag obscure characters, OCs, newbies, and just all around people they don't tag every day.

If we implemented a tagging diversity rule, it would be a requirement that asks each AC proof to be with a different character, at least one of which would have to be cross-canon. If we end up still counting posts, they'd count for every character you tagged inside them. This means that if Character A made a post and tagged Character B (canonmate), Character C (cross-canon), and Character D (canonmate) inside it, they could submit threads with any of those three characters for their other proofs. However, if Character A made a post and only tagged Character B and Character C in it, they'd need to provide a thread with Character D in order prove they tagged 3 different characters.

Please be sure you've read everything clearly! If there are questions, please reply to the mod questions thread below. Happy polling!

Poll #11338

Open to: Access List, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 95

View Respondents

Which AC option should we take?

View Answers

Option 1 - no posts
7 (7.4%)

Option 2 - comment count for posts
41 (43.2%)

Option 3 - flat comment requirement
47 (49.5%)

Should we require tagging diversity?

View Answers

Yes
28 (32.2%)

No
59 (67.8%)

ANOTHER IMPORTANT EDIT: please see this comment with regards to plotting and getting involved ICly!

Comments

MOD QUESTIONS

[asgardmods]

[dragonspeak]

Question about the increased activity! Since you're possibly changing it to three proofs per month, how would this affect the level up applications? Would the activity for those be increased, too?

[sebasher]

I'm really curious about something.

I wanna know

have you ever seen the rain coming down on a sunny day?

Alternatively No you still have to answer that, but can you also dumb the third activity proof down to my level because I really don't understand what your requirements would be.

[stakes]

A question about the tag diversity/cross-canon rule. Katniss isn't terribly social. She talks to her castmates plenty so two diverse members of her cast getting threads wouldn't be different, but, does the cross-canon thread have to be with a totally new character? For example, I've tagged Arthur with Katniss and she knows who he is already. She isn't exactly jumping and hollering to talk to every person who shows up unless there's something that really speaks to her in someone's post. Would I be able to use a consistent cross-canon character or would it have to be someone that I've never tagged before at all? With characters who are much less social or, in some cases, antisocial, there could be difficulty. Not that I don't want to tag everyone with her but she just doesn't... do that. I'm sure there are other characters who have similar attitudes towards others.

idk if this is the right place to put this but

[empowers]

Okay, so since there seems to be a lot of divide on the diversity requirement and not a lot of solutions being presented to create some sort of compromise, what about this? Like the HMD is every other month and a link is required to pass AC, what about tacking on a diversity/crosscanon requirement every other month? That way people who play characters who aren't always social or who are ICly insular to their casts have a little less teeth-grinding to do.

It doesn't encourage crosscanon cr to develop as often or as fast, but it still encourages and enforces it without being suffocating - and as others have said, adding a diversity addendum to leveling up or some other form of in-game incentive helps too. Nobody likes feeling like they have to nailbite to make AC and unless there is a magical pocket in time where every individual character's personality can be taken into account on a month to month basis re: diversity and branching out, it's... Really the only thing that's actually fair as far as it staying a requirement rather than simply encouraged and enforced via reward that I can offer... and it's kind of impossible to police every single character's personality.

Another possible incentive/reward that could be offered would be um... I'm not entirely sure how to phrase this or make it eloquent, but like... AC passes? If you meet a certain number of crosscanon requirements over a period of time or have x number of threads outside of your cast per month that goes above and beyond AC, having a less complicated OVERALL ac for that character the NEXT month? For example...

JOOLAI
character name: herpaderpina bluhuhu
ac: link to cast thread, link to cast thread, CROSSCANON (10 comments), CROSSCANON LOG (5 comments), CROSSCANON (4 comments), CROSSCANON (3847265 comments)

Then for the next AC maybe hack their comment count requirement ( or whatever the system winds up being ) down by a little bit? Not necessarily in half, but say we wind up with (HOPEFULLY) option three - instead of 30 comments, because of their excessive crosscanon activity in the previous month, maybe only require 20? Or something along those lines. Or, um - there's a game called Knights of Legend and they have no AC but they trade in their activity for points and privileges and stuff - maybe once you reach a certain amount of crosscanon cr there's some sort of IC reward? Something that isn't power leveling up? Maybe suddenly access to something from their home world they didn't have before, like a God favor/gift only you have to trade new activity in for it. For example, if you tag (in total)... let's say 15 comments (minimum) of SOLELY CROSSCANON activity in a given month, you can get your character an item from home or some other special thing they might've been wanting. Maybe even a one on one conversation with one of the Gods? I know that puts a lot on the mods as far as NPCs go, but I know there are some characters who would kill to have more than one short conversation with a God every three months.

I'm not sure if any of this makes sense but... IDK there has to be a way to make this work without it seeming super stressful. There's got to be a way to encourage and enforce and help push crosscanon CR and branching out without it being injury/stress/nailbiting/teethgrinding to some people and their characters.

Re: MOD QUESTIONS

[fatherdear]

While I agree that encouraging people to tag cross-canon and new characters is a good thing, I don't think incorporating it into a required part of AC every month is going to make people happy. It's just extra stress. While I know Asgard is a fast, active game I'm pretty sure everyone occasionally has an off month or so where they just stick to tagging current CR and castmates and I don't think that's a bad thing? Especially for those of us who play less social characters, or those who are in large casts. Obviously if that off month is every month it's a problem, but otherwise I don't see why we have to complicate things. Making each piece of activity be with a different character doesn't seem to extreme to me, but getting picky about who those characters are is pushing it, I think. Maybe incorporate something into the HMD?

[hypertoxic]

I like option 3. I'm not always great at diversity between the different types of post, even if I am tagging around places. I tend to stay on the network much, much more - I do very low numbers of inbox threads and log threads. But that doesn't mean I'm not tagging out or being diverse. I've had trouble with that in the past. I think the rule still works because it needs to be across three different posts, and potentially with three different characters - it still shows a wealth of activity and effort without being too stringent about precisely where it happens.

I'm not sure how significantly options 1 and 2 differ, in the end. Even in option 2, the post by itself won't count unless there are 10 comments from you - which is the same exact requirement of option 1. It strikes me as more of a semantic difference - "using threads in your post" versus "10 comments on your post" - than an actual, significant difference.

[pratentious]

I noticed the same thing. Options 1 and 2 seem very similar in this way, unless Option 1 means that you can count threads in your post for two separate pieces of activity? If that makes sense? Like, if you have two separate threads with ten or more comments in each, then you could use them for two pieces of activity?

Maybe I'm confused. Lmao.

[galaxynymph]

Personally, I lean heavily towards option 3 because I don't really get into that many logs but this is just me. Large logs with multiple characters make it difficult for me to jump into because I feel like the comments get ignored. It's a great way to get CR going with cross-canon characters for sure, but I really do prefer network posts myself.

The cross-canon diversity rule though, I'm not entirely certain how I feel about that right now. I need to think about it. My initial reaction though is it sounds great and I'd be willing to give it a shot but it also depends on how others feel about it too. I haven't really noticed clique issues in the game but I've only been back in Asgard for just under a month so I can't really gauge my opinion with complete certainty.

[this_chair]

I like option three too.

Option two relies too much on people tagging your posts, which can get frustrating and it's an activity choice that is out of the person's control. Option three is a little more in terms of activity but it's not overbearing.

[ryuuzaki]

I liked option 2! It seems to be the most workable and fair all around.

What I was trying to say on the mod plurk is that I voted against diversity requirements. Ultimately, activity proofs in any game are supposed to show that you're active and want to stay around: trying to use them to shape activity past that can backfire. Diversity is a good goal, but making it a requirement to pass would probably just overcomplicate the AC for most of us.

[digophelia]

1+

[this_chair]

I voted yes on tagging diversity. They sort of do this at GB where it's discouraged to use a thread with the same character on consecutive months. I think something like that could be useful in the long run.

[stakes]

Unfortunately with that system, antisocial characters who don't necessarily talk to a lot of different people would suffer unless they were to consistently make open logs month after month to invite potential new people to tag them.

[pratentious]

I'm still on the fence about all of the post options, so I'll lurk around other discussions for that, but I have felt very very strongly about the diversity thing since I joined the game, if my participation in the HMD thread wasn't any clue. lol.

I strongly, strongly encourage people towards this option, particularly those of us with ginormous casts that can easily make it through AC by tagging a couple castmember's posts. I'm very proud to say that I haven't seen cliques as a large problem in Asgard, but I think it's still very important to make sure that we don't fall into that easy way of sticking to casts and related CR. For example, the Merlin cast and the SPN cast have p.much merged together because we are ridiculous and silly like that, so I try to make sure I tag outside of our massive dysfunctional family too instead of being trapped in New Camelot's love affair with Team Free Will.

I know that one of the arguments against this is in regards to characters that are ICly shy or unlikely to go out and speak with people that they don't know already, which is a perfectly legitimate concern! The last thing we would want is to see people breaking characterisation just to make AC. At the same time, the very purpose of Asgard is to force people to interact with each other and return colour to the world, so I think that requiring just one cross-canon proof should be okay, because it will encourage more interaction with the world itself and expanding beyond our comfort zones to help build the game up. These characters have been trapped in a world with people from a gajillion different universes (exactly a gajillion, I counted) so I think it is reasonable to expect, or at least hope that our characters might eventually be able to speak with other people at some point in time.

One of my favourite things about this game is how open and friendly the playerbase has been for the entirety of my stay here. I've had Arthur talk to so many different people from different mediums and genres and timelines about everything from the seriously inane and ridiculous to heavy, significant discussions, and I've received nothing but warm and welcome interaction at every turn. The same can't be said of every game. I've been in a couple where it was nearly impossible to break into such a comfortable ease with new players and new characters. I think meeting a diversity requirement should be relatively easy, and better for the game overall.

tl;dr, Faith has a lot of Feelings and likes to rant a lot, but yes. I strongly encourage everyone to take this into consideration, and thank you for putting up with my insanity for the past six months. orz

[hypertoxic]

idk I just think it's not necessary to make diversity an AC requirement? Like there are other ways it could be done than FORCING it through activity check, like through leveling up like I mentioned above. More diversity is good, but being punished if you're not seems ... well, unfair. I know the point is to get out there and mingle, but if you have one month where you struggle with that you take a hit that I think is not right.

Like, if through AC were teh only way to encourage diversity I'd say sure? But it's not, so it strikes me as kind of unnecessary.

[samantha_grey]

Because of the disparate personality of a wide variety of voices (As hinted at by Katniss-mun earlier), I am leery of the notion of requiring post diversity. I understand the 'principle' behind it, especially considering the character growth-focus of Asgard, as it interplays with the level up system. However, I think this really needs to be avoided in terms of Activity Checks. It could be needlessly discouraging for some players, particularly of characters who are not social and deeply entrenched within their canons in specific relationships.

I certainly encourage cross-canon posting, but I don't think it should be enforced as an AC requirement.

[superfiber]

As someone who only plays antisocial characters, all I can say is that it's not too hard to get a cross-canon thread. Or at least ten comments over three threads. While I agree that it's not necessary for most players, there are a lot of players out there who don't do any tagging out of their canon. As this is a panfandom game, I find that distasteful. Especially for characters who have no canon-mates, or OCs, or obscure characters, which we have a lot of.

[liquo]

I don't have a strong inclination toward any of the options.

Option 1 takes away from the work that may go into making posts that aren't a last-minute effort to make AC. Some of those can be very lengthy and take more thought.

Option 2 makes having your post count for AC dependent on people tagging your post, and sometimes people don't receive many tags at their posts. I haven't usually seen that be the case here, but I have seen it happen where someone who usually receives many tags at their posts will have one or two that receive only a few or none.

My main complaint with Option 3 is that it lessens the work that some people may put into log tags. With the current AC system, you need at least three comments from you at a log. That's vastly different from 10 if a character tends to mostly only be active in logs. Most log tags I've seen in Asgard aren't very long, but there are players who write lengthier log tags which take longer. This may encourage people being lazier with log tags in order to make AC. Granted, making 30 comments in a month isn't hard if you're active.

If I had to choose one of the options, I would go with Option 3. I think I prefer the idea of just having it so a post doesn't count if it's posted so many days before AC and where the player doesn't do much beyond posting it, but that may be looking for too many things in a post.

[digophelia]

Pretty much everyone's took the words out of my mouth and to the point of being civil, that's all I'm going to say. However, I would suggest something like a CR meme, sort of like what scorched does every month to possibly encourage more cross-canon interaction and player plotting.

[occulthymns]

We do have a monthly cr meme actually! It generally comes after the app period.

[liquo]

About events:

When you say that you will only allow one (approved) player plot per month, does this refer to only allowing one player plot per month where the plot affects the environment, that the mods will promote, or just any player plot? I think it's the first and maybe second but want to make sure.

[asgardmods]

It means one super-big plot that affects the whole city. For example, someone throwing a party or a murder plot that only involves 10 characters or so isn't anything that needs to be on the calendar. However the Darkness plot is huge and applies to everyone, so there couldn't be another one like it in the same month. Basically if it would need to be on the schedule and in the monthly plot post, we'll only have one. Smaller things can happen whenever the people involved want them to since they only apply to small groups anyway.

[dragonspeak]

Actually, I just had a thought. (Even though I already voted.) This is me throwing in my two cents, so feel free to disregard if it doesn't make sense!

What you could do is implement option 1 to help control the flood of posts at the end of the month, and keep posts with a higher number of comment counts from the player as a special kind of proof for the level up applications. Say, a post with at least 30 comments (or however many threads you decide to increase the requirements to) could be the only piece of proof you need for one of the months?

I think implementing the cross canon CR into the level up system would help with incentives, as serkets up there pointed out, and it might encourage players to continue threads for a longer time, too.

[childsoldier]

I just want to start off by saying, thank god for all the clarifications in the comments. I was kinda having some trouble wrapping my head around what everything meant until the specifics were outlined in the comment section.

After the clarification, I'm ultimately liking option 3 the best, since it doesn't have a specific "you must have x amount of this in here" requirement to it. Because lets face it, not every post you make is gonna let you get to ten comments from your character alone. I like the idea of being able to go through and grab whatever number of threads you may need to hit activity. I don't think it would discourage any actual posting either, since an event that happens in a network or log post could always lead to another network or log post.

As for the tag diversity matter, despite being a lone-canon warrior right now, I don't think it should be a requirement. Some characters like to poke around, some don't. I feel requiring it would put added stress on players that might not be able to get their characters to chat up the town.

[auditor]

First: I have not, and probably will not, vote regarding the AC changes. I'm neutral of the options, and the character I play makes it very easy to meet requirements. Besides, I think others have expressed their concerns, and opinions, better! I hope what is decided will help players and mods, alike. Second: thank you for responding to players' concerns and adapting. It is incredibly encouraging to see, and I greatly appreciate it. I am honored to be part of a game wherein the mods respond to the playerbase. As I have said before, I love this game dearly. That said...

I'm, still, concerned about the team's speed. I think these changes will help everybody! But honestly? I'm just unsure if this will affect replies to noncharacter applications, FAQ questions, and suggestions. Or rather, how much. I have heard the business email is checked rarely, hence the slowness of replies. If you plan to change the efficiency, does this mean it will be checked more? Will the applications be sent to a new email? I think transparency would better, in this case, because while I see changes, I don't see the mod team understanding how, well, bad they have been. Which is not your fault because you are so tremendously overwhelmed. So will only two additions to the team help, especially if it's only for character applications?

On that note, I am slightly uncomfortable that mods will be picked informally. Choosing helpers, and mods, is something of a trial and error. But what if these mods don't help? I guess if there is an "interview" process that would assure the mods, at least, these people are capable. But I'm not assured, and I would be more comfortable to see mod applications. In fact, I know several people have discussed their desire for this as well. Again, what I would like is a little transparency.

Waiting for this post was a bit like sitting in the dark. We were given a general timeframe and after, heard nothing else of it, until you were asked. Communication would go a long way.

Thank you, though. I am very sorry that I sound as though I am impossible to please. I did say the pacing was my greatest concern, but it was half of my comment — and because the pacing will not change very much, I am concerned the mod team will not change to match it. I suppose we will see. But if these changes don't work, I strongly encourage a larger mod team.

+1

[madamemoiselle]

While some of the changes in this post are good and quite needed, I'm a bit disappointed that the issue of the overall speed was glossed over. While another app mod or two may be nice, I think two more mods to maintain lists and keep approvals (whether businesses or level-ups) would be a better use of resources. The app times may be slow for some, but aren't terrible. On the other hand, approvals for level-ups or businesses are, quite frankly, not acceptable. With FAQs, I can understand the slowness since there's some communication that has to go on behind the scenes, but not with some of these basic things.

[writeswrongs]

My vote was for the second option. I'm curious how that would entail 3 proofs though? We'd still only need two posts/threads/logs/whatever, only a post would only count if the person tagged 10 times in it. Maybe I'm missing something?

Also, FWIW and I don't run this place, so maybe it's not worth much, but I wouldn't like it if we dropped down to every other month for apps, only because that would mean a long time for new players to join the game if they wanted to. My suggestion would maybe be (and this doesn't sound like it would work, but if you had enough people doing apps it could) have a rolling app cycle and do it weekly. That way you wouldn't get 100 apps all at once. You'd get maybe 20 a week. Put a limit on how many people can app in a month. Of course you'd be doing apps all the time (on weekends or whatever) but it wouldn't be as many at once.

[tyrian]

Speaking as someone who mods a game that gets about twenty apps a week, it can eat up a lot of time processing--either you're doing apps all week or you have to marathon them all in one day. And considering my game isn't nearly as large as Asgard, I'd be concerned they'd be getting way over 20 a week, which would mean even less time for them to do anything else.

It would also have the problem of having people coming in during big events. If everyone is busy running around trying to combat the Darkness, to use August as an example, introductions are going to get ignored and it can be kind of confusing for newbies who are getting acclimated.

[mistakenidentity]

I'm kind of iffy on the AC options, but if I had to choose one I think Option 3 would be workable if I'm reading and understanding it correctly. Basically, everything will count towards AC so long as it adds up to 30 total, yes?

As for tagging diversity, I'd be fine with it. Canada's not a total social butterfly, but he'd speak to anyone if he had anything to say. But it would be a bit problematic for characters that don't really talk to others outside of their own little circle. Would it be possible for characters who are less likely to venture outside of canon interaction to be exempt from it though? And actually validate their reason for exemption with an explanation.

Or would that just create a bigger hassle?

[gameplaying]

I'm still considering where I stand wrt the various options presented, but I don't have any problem with diversity in essence because — if I'm understanding correctly — it's not a case of tagging a new person every month which, whilst nice, isn't necessarily feasible as far as comment length and activity in general goes. On the other hand, I do think that the point of being in a game, panfandom or otherwise, is to explore development with a character and to have them grow, and I would question how suitable the character is to any game if it's impossible to find any way (log, thread, IC inbox, events) of them interacting with at least one person per month that isn't in their cast.

So whilst I'm not quite sure where I stand on it (proof of diversity in thread links) being a requirement but perhaps — as an alternative, whilst I was at Siren's Pull*, and I think Marina do a similar thing, players have to provide a quick summary of what their character has been up to as part of the AC. In lieu of a necessity to link threads with cross-canon CR, perhaps that could be an option? If you're at the point where you can't account for your character's actions throughout the month, you can't feasibly explain what they've been doing and who they've been doing it with, you're probably going to want to rethink your activity with that character, IMO. I've played anti-social characters, I know that it's not easy, but it's also not an excuse.

*A while back, I can't remember the exact details, but I think it was part of the AC.

I also take issue with option two in that there's a minimum comment count requirement to your own posts. I admit, it's not something I'd struggle with and whilst I can see the thinking behind it, there is always the risk of a ~worst case scenario~ in which a post is made, the player tags all the threads that get started on their post, but through no fault of their own, the threads end up dropped by the other parties, and/or they just don't meet the quota. Of course, that is a legit worst case!! thing, and whilst one would hope it wouldn't occur, I'm still a bit iffy on it.

It also wouldn't stop someone from busting out a last minute, totally rote post and giving last minute, totally rote replies to threads. It wouldn't be an assurance of variety or — I'm a bit hesitant to use the word, but — quality, particularly as the suggestions have come about in response to people putting up posts at the last minute just to make AC.

[rules_the_north]

I'm very much against the "what has my character been up to" thing, mostly because some characters tend to not actually accomplish things - they talk to people, run their bussiness/go to work, and the player has fun and is active, but if quizzed regarding "what did they *do*" the player would start stammering.

Like when you have a day free and do tons of little things like washing the dishes and tidying up a few things and talking to a friend and doing some emails and watering the plants and taking the dog out (etcetc) but at the end of the day you couldn't really say what you *did*. Sure, someone could say that's boring, but required development is incredibly forced and can result in things that are either ooc or kill every fun. And often character development and CR development happens on the side - not with something that one could talk about, more with just daily life things and maybe one or two big things.

And if the whole "tell me what you did" thing is meant to be "tell me how you interacted with new characters" that would be entirely weird, because uh, with new characters the first thread often has no real results, unless it is a "I need a place/work" and your character happens to have an opening and invites them in.

[callmegenius]

I was under the impression that there already was a flat comment requirement, so I don't think I'm really any help with that.

As for requiring tagging diversity, I didn't vote but I do have something to say about it. How OT it is, I'm not sure. I don't want to inspire wank or anything either, so please no one take this as that! Buuuut. (also, it might take some time but I do get to my point)

I'm actually having a really hard time in this game right now, if I'm going to be perfectly honest. My tagging drive was so low last month that I purposefully took a strike because I couldn't bother to look at my reading page. I just feel like there isn't enough for my character to do, and it's really hard to do whatever it is I want him to do when what little CR I manage to obtain drops. I have a thought about that, too.

I don't know how many MMO gamers there are amongst the players and mods here, so I'm not sure how people will relate to this analogy. I apologize beforehand, but I can't think of another way to put it: You know how when you hear of this new, amazing game? It promises to be awesome and you're super excited to try it, so when you finally get your chance and do all the things... only you realize that the level capacity is really low, so you make another character and play it again. The same problem happens all over again and eventually you quit because there isn't enough content to keep you entertained anymore, even if you party with different people each time and have different experiences in your play through. I kind of feel like Asgard has reached its level cap right now. Everyone is so concerned about events events events! Well, those are fine once in a while (I personally have been here since March and ignored every one of them) and plot is okay too, but there simply isn't enough content to Asgard. I'm not talking about new areas to a map (which I was excited for but nothing came of?) or anything like that, but something for characters to feel like they're not... just there for the hell of it, I guess? I'd say player shops are a good step but there's also something else that's missing and I can't put my finger on it right now. They just need direction and purpose, other than "oh yay someone from my world! Watch out or evil things like ice faeries and the gods might get you!".

Hopefully that made sense and didn't offend anyone. I just... idk. This game feels a little empty in content to me lately. So, feel free to stop me if it's just me thinking this way.

[gameplaying]

It may simply be that the game isn't a good fit for you/your character, and there's nothing wrong with that. The first time I apped into Asgard, it was with Draco, and whilst I apped in at a bad time for me personally, as I had a lot of RL shit going on, I simply couldn't get my interpretation of Draco to jive with the setting and get involved, and so I dropped.

Since returning with Loki, I've settled in far better, and I have had things to do — part of it is that I've been far more proactive with Loki than I had been with Draco, and part of it is simply that he fits in better with the concept of the game and the direction it's heading in wrt the overarching plot. I can understand the mods' desire to keep the details of the plot a relative secret, it may be that for some players such as yourself, the fact that it is a secret lessens the feeling of direction and purpose, and that's what your problem stems from? I imagine that I would be feeling similarly if I wasn't aware that the concept of Ragnarök was something of a basis for the game at present, and if it wasn't something that characters could get involved with on a half-decent level. Perhaps a degree more forewarning and knowledge of what is to come — vague, perhaps, to help keep the anticipation — could help wrt knowing what characters could be working towards? I'm not sure, it's a tricky balance.

That said, whilst I do think that part of being a mod is to help players out with events and plots, I don't think they should be held accountable for giving characters direction and purpose because the direction and purpose is going to differ depending on the character, and shoehorning it on characters is just going to backfire. So, I suppose, what you consider to be Asgard's weakness, I actually consider to be something of a strength in that it is very open and that is, I know, going to be a very person-to-person, character-to-character thing.

[evokative]

A lot of other people have expressed similar opinions better than I ever could, but I'll still leave some bits here.

I'm not actually going to be voting on the AC revamp simply because I can't decide on which one I like! To be honest, I've never minded using posts as a requirement, although most games I've seen have a post/comment requirement in their AC and I suggest that if you change that posts are still included, that something like this is implemented. Other than that, personally, I like having as many options for AC as possible, hence why I can't make up my mind on it.

And for tagging diversity, I agree with others that it should really be saved for something like Level up applications. Sometimes, you just have a month where things and tagging drive sucks and you really don't want to take a strike. Sometimes you need a month with less stress and you make fewer out-of-cast threads than before.

I do, however, have an issue with plots/events going on still. There's been a lot of house competitions in the past, more so than any Attacks/War events where something trying to destroy the city. Things that really kind of pertain to the overall plot. And when I do think about the overall plot in general it feels honestly like there hasn't been a lot of advances in the plots progression. Or, if there are, it's small and only effects maybe a handful of characters. Things that could get easily lost or might not actively effect other characters, which might give some players the feeling of "why bother".

I know that as mods you really don't want to give away the ending for anyone for the first arc, but to be honest, I like knowing where I'm going. With the slow-feeling progression of the plot, it honestly doesn't seem like there's a lot that will really effect characters than the usual "Oh it's a curse" or "Oh it's an attack" or "Oh those gods are jackasses".

All I'm saying is that it'd be nice to have a little bit of more transparency, and character involvement in the plot overall. You really don't need to reveal everything and certainly not all at once, but I think it would help those muns and characters who are struggling to find their footing know where exactly the game is going and if its something they like.


Edit: I just realized I'm sort of repeating what others already said. Sorry ._.

[biifurcatiion]

I don't particularly have any kind of preference for the way they AC is handled. All of those seem to me to require a similar amount of effort on my part and I've been in games that required each one of those at some point or other and don't find any particularly more difficult and stringent than the other.

But I am on the fence about diversity requirements. If the stated intention is to encouraging people to tag out to people they don't already tag and to help people tag obscure characters, etc., then it would be better to make that the requirement? Rather than just straight out cross-canon CR. But to do that adds more work for the players and more work for the mods as well to keep track of who we have been tagging, which doesn't seem feasible or a reasonable use of anybody's time. I think the intention is right, but I'm not sure it will have that effect, and if I were still playing Bruce I would say for him it would be EXTREMELY HARD to do that sometimes depending on events because he's reclusive and somewhat secretive by nature.

Aaaah I'm not very awake but those are my thoughts I'll ruminate but ultimately I think I don't really care too much what happens. I know we have CR memes but I feel like there ought to be some other kind of thing we could do to encourage tagging out more? I will just have to consider what it is.

regarding plot

[asgardmods]

There are a lot of comments about this, so I'm going to make this one top-level.

With regards to characters being more involved in the overarcing plot, we'd be happy to take suggestions. As it is some players are obviously feeling like they're only reacting, and that's not good! However, we'd like to see some more concrete ideas on what it is you'd prefer. Right now, we're very open to people volunteering to start things, to get involved with the bad guys or at home, but we haven't gotten a lot of bites in that regard and a good deal of the ones we have gotten have been told "yes, you can do things!" and haven't come back to tell us what they actually want to do and when.

Starting things like the neighbor's club, the teacher's council, etc, are all good ways to get characters involved in something that has an effect. There's also been attempts at government or justice systems, though they have all ICly or OOCly fallen through. Characters are aware there is a war involved -- it would be possible to organize a defense system, to set up logs exploring the area outside of the city, etc. It's also possible for people to meet one of the giant rulers and switch sides -- though you're entirely right that NPC tags have suffered. In that direction, I've tried to step up my own activity, but I don't have the time to carry on every thread for a long time.

Look at it like AC. If we're asking you to have 30 comments a month in AC, you'd think that's reasonable. On any given NPC post there are often 30 threads, and to continue them all out of 15 comments would be 15 times the activity required of a regular player, in addition to the mod's own characters and other mod duties. In short, it's a lot to do, so I'm very sorry threads are dropped after a week or so, but in the end a choice needs to be made between only responding to a few of the people who tag the post and having longer threads or responding to everyone and having shorter threads. Loki's last post ended up at 450 comments, with only a few threadjacks, so 200 of those comments or so were from just me and Remi, within a week.

Despite that, the length of threads on the last post did go up, and I will personally continue to try to increase the number of tags that get to a post.

I don't mean to just defend NPC posts, though! We'd really, really love it if people volunteered more to start things or get involved with the gods or baddies. Not all the players of NPCs have the time to dedicate them to a lot more, but I can say right now that if someone would like to strike up further CR with Loki or Freyr or Thiazi, they are always welcome to contact me! As far as other involvement in the plot, please please please drop more suggestions about how you'd like us to get you involved. A plot that doesn't ever involve players is no fun for you and honestly more work for us!

As far as giving out more information, though: The overarcing plot events have been kept to a bare minimum of info on the monthly posts, and that can definitely change. Would giving a full description of things those weeks in advance help? If so we'd be glad to do that.

We're open to other changes, so please throw us some solid bones. There isn't a lot we can do with just "it feels like we can't do anything", but we'd love to answer questions and brainstorm with you guys to come up with a way to better even this out. August's plot event should also be opening up the world a little more and giving people a way to be involved in itself, since we already knew this was a problem. Hopefully we can do even more to make everyone feel included.

[trickyoutwice]

I don't know how feasible this is or how comfortable you'd be with this, but if NPC interactions are so comment-intensive and since there's obviously a demand for them, what about doling out the gods as actual characters? Maybe get some helpers from within the player base who you wouldn't mind sharing some of the plot with and assign each of them to have two or three of the gods to play.

You'd obviously need to put limits on what the god characters could do. Something like only having them available for comment responses or events rather than running around like normal characters do? This way you'd have less demand on your time and everyone would be able to get in a lot more interaction with the god character NPCs which may help to make people feel like they can do things to actively affect the plot.